Google OpenID, a point release, and a fork

Topics: Suggestion
Coordinator
Sep 17, 2010 at 12:08 AM

Hey guys, one of the worst bugs that was hanging was the fact that Google OpenID looked like poop. Andrew Aarnott has checked in the fix for this and upgraded the trunk. I'm running it on my blog and it looks nice. It DID require some merging of the web.config though, which was subtle. Any ideas on how to make the upgrade easier?

Any thoughts on this and a bug fix release?  This would be .NET 3.5 and the final (final) release.

I was thinking we'd then do a trunk/fork/reboot and start a .NET 4 version and try to change the template to Razor and maybe switch to SQL CE.

Thoughts?

--
Scott Hanselman
Help me? http://hnsl.mn/fightdiabetes

Coordinator
Sep 17, 2010 at 1:48 AM

Hmmm, I have moved on so far away from dasBlog, I can't even image adding much value anymore :-(

I removed the link to the old forums today, lost that site sometime ago, not really willing to fight to get the php/Mysql database back up.

Am considering removing the link to daily builds also, not very helpful these days.

I will commit to keeping the main WWW site up, and hosting whatever files/release you decide to finalize on.

For what its worth, I hope dasBlog is reborn, I image I will be a user and fanboy but thats about all, I will help where/when I can in small ways.

Cheers

Tom Watts

Coordinator
Sep 17, 2010 at 10:19 PM

Sounds like a good idea..

The .NET 4 branch is created called dasblog2010; these changes can be merged back to the mainbranch after this final 3.5 release.

One other change is removing the requirement setting the siteConfig.Root and just figuring that out based on the request that comes in.

 

 

Coordinator
Sep 18, 2010 at 10:19 AM

If you’d like, Tom, if it would take pressure off you, you are welcome to just redirect dasblog.info to http://dasblog.codeplex.com?

Coordinator
Sep 21, 2010 at 11:46 PM

As long as dasBlog.info adds value I will keep it up.

If somebody wants to revise or update, I will be happy to support any such involvment. It is a blog after all.

Otherwise if the group wants to drop a WWW presence I am ok with that too. 

Back to lurking...

Tom

Sep 30, 2010 at 4:36 PM

Scott, How would we go about integrating our templates with Razor, Ideas?  Are you thinking that we replace the whole xml storage system with a sql provider or just add this as an option?

Developer
Sep 30, 2010 at 5:49 PM
Edited Sep 30, 2010 at 5:53 PM
 I was thinking we'd then do a trunk/fork/reboot and start a .NET 4 version and try to change the template to Razor and maybe switch to SQL CE.

Thoughts?

 

Trunk/fork/reboot sounds like fun.

I don't know enough about Razor to comment on that.  Personally, I feel myself drawn to StringTemplate more often than not these days (simple and focused like dasBlog but very powerful).  However, I can see why you'd want to roll with Razor :)

Personally, I would like dasBlog to remain a file based blog.  I think the "no database needed" feature is a great feature.  If dasBlog moved over to a database backend I would probably switch off it (but I'm not that bothered if it does).  Plus, if we do the DB thing, why not just write dasBlog as an Orchard module?

I would retain a file based system but move from XML to a simpler text format.  I'd also move to a file per object (e.g. per post).  Formats I like in other engines include this from Nesta CMS and this from toto (scroll down).  Basically, markdown (or similar) with some metadata inline.  The other thing I like about staying file based, is it opens up other workflows (like managing your content via Git/Mecurial etc as well as via MetaWebLog).

With such a simple system, we could spend our time being radical.  Perhaps we could bake in support Edge Side Includes (it looks pretty simple) so you wouldn't have to worry about scaling anymore Scott ;)

--

Ben Taylor
http://twitter.com/bentayloruk

Coordinator
Sep 30, 2010 at 11:32 PM

Ben, what if we used SQL Compact Edition…you wouldn’t even know it was there. Basically you’d have a .SDF file and we’d all get the benefits of the ability to actually QUERY the data. The inability to query across years for things like ‘popular comments’ is killing me.

Coordinator
Sep 30, 2010 at 11:57 PM
Yes, SQL Compact Edition 4 sounds like a good idea.. since it's supports medium trust and asp.net
 
the pain I see is the required deployment of sql CE binaries (and supporting updates for those).
 
We should be able to support both, with some work...
 
Do you propose we store (small) binary files in the SQL db? Does it have a max size?
 
 
 
 


 
On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 15:32, shanselman <notifications@codeplex.com> wrote:

From: shanselman

Ben, what if we used SQL Compact Edition…you wouldn’t even know it was there. Basically you’d have a .SDF file and we’d all get the benefits of the ability to actually QUERY the data. The inability to query across years for things like ‘popular comments’ is killing me.

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Oct 1, 2010 at 12:05 AM

Scott I think sql compact will still have a different memory foot print then our xml system currently and  a .sdf file is not as machine readable as an xml file.   If we are talking pie in the sky we could always move to a document database ala a ravenDB ish system.  In fact it might be possible to find a document db that we can use with our current xml files.  This way we could use map reduce functions to run popular comment type queries. and get lucerne for full text search.

I have no problem with the db provider,  I am not sure how powerful sql compact will be.

 

How approachable will razor be to our users?  Is this even a concern anymore?

Coordinator
Oct 1, 2010 at 12:45 AM

Pretty sure that the SQL CE binaries are just a few and copy/local, right?

Coordinator
Oct 1, 2010 at 12:45 AM

Oops, no I don’t see why we need to store files in the DB. Files are great in a file system. ;)

Coordinator
Oct 1, 2010 at 12:47 AM

Good points. Honestly, we need to do some prototypes. I believe that a SQL CE db should be at LEAST as fast as an XML one. Plus, you’ll be able to “mount” that DB. As for readability, what if there was a clean command-line import/export from existing Dasblog XML to the SDF and back?

As for Razor, I’m thinking it’d be very approachable, given how totally similar it is to what we already have. It’s effectively the same as our current templating system, except presumably there is better tested. ;) I know what a mess ours is…I’ve lived it.

Coordinator
Oct 1, 2010 at 12:49 AM
I would like to just having to copy 1 file which contains everything as a backup solution.

On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 16:45, shanselman <notifications@codeplex.com> wrote:

From: shanselman

Oops, no I don’t see why we need to store files in the DB. Files are great in a file system. ;)

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Oct 1, 2010 at 10:24 AM

Orchard looks pretty good - they have a working blog module as well.

Developer
Oct 1, 2010 at 11:30 AM

Basically you’d have a .SDF file and we’d all get the benefits of the ability to actually QUERY the data. The inability to query across years for things like ‘popular comments’ is killing me.

Yeah, the ability to query across all my comments is killing <cough/> me too :)

I was not really thinking about the comments and I agree, it's not ideal having them in files (my main use of dasBlog is for CMS hence not thinking about that).  So how about we use SQL CE for the comment system (and possibly other sub-sytems) but not for the actual posts and post meta?  A progressive enhancement approach.  We have a single file per post (also containing the meta) and if you don't have SQL CE we default to Disqus for comments.

@Paul - we could auto-create a daily zip of all the files and the CE DB.  Would that meet the single file backup requirement?

@Scott - what is your motivation for building the new dasBlog as opposed to using Orchard or even something like BlogEngine.net? (I just looked and see they have done a lot of work since I last checked and support full file based or DB based back end).

Coordinator
Oct 1, 2010 at 9:13 PM

My only motivation, vs. just killing it? Mostly because it works, I understand it, and it’s proven. If I move to another blog, I’m not sure what subtle functionality I’d lose. The only think I don’t like about DB right now is the lack of threaded comments.

Developer
Oct 2, 2010 at 11:24 AM

Interesting.  Given that most of your requirements are related to the comment system maybe we should start a new project.  An open source Disqus.  It would not be dasBlog specific so others may be interested in joining in.  Obviously, we would integrate it with dasBlog.

I don't see many options (certainly not in .NET) but I know there is a market for a non-Disqus solution, as many feel uncomfortable outsourcing their comments.  Apparently this is the most popular one in django land http://github.com/ericflo/django-threadedcomments/

What do you think?  A step too far?

Coordinator
Oct 2, 2010 at 9:10 PM

I like this idea...

 

Coordinator
Oct 4, 2010 at 6:11 PM
So you’re saying a new project that’s focused entirely on adding comments to a blog, using new tech?
Coordinator
Oct 4, 2010 at 8:09 PM
I prefer a combination of both a separare project and integrated with dasBlog
 
This allows for a couple of scenarios:
 
1. Using the comment system as a hosted service, effectively 1 comment solution for all your web assets.
2. dasBlog consumes the comment-serivce via an assembly reference (when hosted local)  and integrates comment management natively
3. dasblog consumes the comment-serivce via a webservice (REST + XML/JSON) and uses the remote comment management on the remote comment host
 
Or a combination.... my user scenario would be something like
 
 
A secondary usage scenario is the disquss scnerio, where you as a company hosts comments for "the rest of the world"
 
 
 
 


 
On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 10:11, shanselman <notifications@codeplex.com> wrote:

From: shanselman

So you’re saying a new project that’s focused entirely on adding comments to a blog, using new tech?

Read the full discussion online.

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Developer
Oct 5, 2010 at 11:16 AM

Yes.  But it's only a suggestion based on your comment requirements and my wish to store posts on the file system :)  I don't have a personal need for a better comment system and I really don't mind if you all want to go a different route.